<?xml version="1.0"?>
<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xml:lang="en">
	<id>https://kb42.info/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=BBS%2Fmd4gun</id>
	<title>BBS/md4gun - Revision history</title>
	<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="https://kb42.info/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=BBS%2Fmd4gun"/>
	<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://kb42.info/index.php?title=BBS/md4gun&amp;action=history"/>
	<updated>2026-05-15T07:32:38Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
	<generator>MediaWiki 1.45.3</generator>
	<entry>
		<id>https://kb42.info/index.php?title=BBS/md4gun&amp;diff=8164&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Maintenance script: Politics BBS Archive</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://kb42.info/index.php?title=BBS/md4gun&amp;diff=8164&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2023-09-24T02:53:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Politics BBS Archive&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;[[Category:BBS]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Infobox BBS&lt;br /&gt;
| image         = Archived-En.png&lt;br /&gt;
| file          = md4gun.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| author        = Unknown&lt;br /&gt;
| date          = Unknown&lt;br /&gt;
| subject       = &lt;br /&gt;
| orig_bbs      = Unknown&lt;br /&gt;
| bbs_main_page = &lt;br /&gt;
| key_words     = Politics&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  THE TRUTH ABOUT THE USE OF GUNS IN THE UNITED STATES&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                   November 23, 1993&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I came upon the following information through John Grossbohlin, a good friend&lt;br /&gt;
of mine who recently attended a gun rights conference in Phoenix, Arizona.&lt;br /&gt;
He provided me a pamphlet that was printed by the organization &amp;quot;Doctors for&lt;br /&gt;
Integrity in Research and Public Policy.&amp;quot; The pamphlet was authored by Edgar&lt;br /&gt;
A. Suter, M.D., who is the organization&amp;#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 While I have seen much of the information provided in this pamphlet before,&lt;br /&gt;
I have seen no other compendium that presents so much so concisely.  For this&lt;br /&gt;
reason, I have chosen to commit its contents to a computer file so that it&lt;br /&gt;
can be distributed more widely.  I would hope that each and every person&lt;br /&gt;
reading this file would copy it and upload it to various bulletin boards&lt;br /&gt;
across the country. I would also hope that you will use its contents widely&lt;br /&gt;
in debates, computer BB discussions, letters to the editor, and in&lt;br /&gt;
correspondence with your lawmakers.  If so, Dr. Suter&amp;#039;s efforts and my own&lt;br /&gt;
will have proven worthwhile.  What follows is the text of Dr. Suter&amp;#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
excellent pamphlet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  Regards,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  John Marshall&lt;br /&gt;
  El Paso, Texas&lt;br /&gt;
  CompuServe 76366,663&lt;br /&gt;
  Prodigy VFCM83A&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=============================================================&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 GUNS:&lt;br /&gt;
  Facts &amp;amp;&lt;br /&gt;
   Fallacies&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                           Doctors for&lt;br /&gt;
                           Integrity in&lt;br /&gt;
                           Research &amp;amp;&lt;br /&gt;
                           Public Policy&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                       Edgar A. Suter, MD, Chair&lt;br /&gt;
                       5201 Norris Canyon Road&lt;br /&gt;
                       Suite 140&lt;br /&gt;
                       San Ramon, CA  94583&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Guns are used defensively by good people 1. to 2.4 million times every year&lt;br /&gt;
- lives saved, injuries prevented, medical costs saved, and property&lt;br /&gt;
protected&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Revised 10/27/93&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-+---------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
POLITICS OR RESEARCH? . . . THE TAXPAYERS PAY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the issue of guns and violence, our group has uncovered shocking&lt;br /&gt;
incompetence, distortions and outright lies in many major medical journals.&lt;br /&gt;
We have discovered it is quite common for TAXPAYER-FUNDED gun control&lt;br /&gt;
researchers to fabricate and sculpt their data to bolster their biased and&lt;br /&gt;
foregone conclusions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;peer review&amp;quot; process is supposed to prevent the publication of research&lt;br /&gt;
that is flawed in method or conclusions.  Editorial bias has caused a&lt;br /&gt;
breakdown of that review process, allowing publication of much shoddy work&lt;br /&gt;
simply because it supported the &amp;quot;politically correct&amp;quot; view. Unusual&lt;br /&gt;
showmanship accompanies the announcements of gun prohibition advocates. Why?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our group is also concerned that the 1990 Harvard Medical Practice Study - a&lt;br /&gt;
sample from New York state - suggests that Americans are five times as likely&lt;br /&gt;
to die from a doctor as from a gun. An estimated 150,000 Americans die every&lt;br /&gt;
year from medical negligence - over five times as many deaths from doctors as&lt;br /&gt;
from guns! A &amp;quot;public health emergency&amp;quot; about which the American Medical&lt;br /&gt;
Association is suspiciously silent. Politics, lies or incompetence?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE NUMBERS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop and the Editor in Chief of the Journal&lt;br /&gt;
of the American Medical Association (JAMA), Dr. George Lundberg, in a June&lt;br /&gt;
10, 1992 JAMA editorial, claimed &amp;quot;one million US inhabitants die prematurely&lt;br /&gt;
each year as the result of intentional homicide or suicide.&amp;quot;  Since an&lt;br /&gt;
average of 30,000 Americans die from gunshots each year, JAMA&amp;#039;s claim is a&lt;br /&gt;
35-FOLD EXAGGERATION. Yet congressmen listen with respect to their testimony&lt;br /&gt;
on guns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE &amp;quot;INNOCENT CHILDREN&amp;quot; EXAGGERATION&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Powerful images of children are used to mislead us.  Prohibitionists foster&lt;br /&gt;
the image of gun deaths of &amp;quot;thousands of innocent children.&amp;quot; In order to make&lt;br /&gt;
this claim, they have had to include young adults (to age 24) involved in&lt;br /&gt;
gang and drug crime - hardly &amp;quot;innocent children.&amp;quot; 10 TO 20 TIMES MORE&lt;br /&gt;
CHILDREN DIE FROM CAR AND OTHER LEADING CAUSES OF ACCIDENTAL DEATHS AS DIE&lt;br /&gt;
FROM GUNS - for example, in 1988, compared with 2,608 car, 1,014 drowning,&lt;br /&gt;
and 10,094 burn deaths, 123 children (ages 0-10) died from gun accidents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE &amp;quot;43 TIMES&amp;quot; FALLACY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have all head that &amp;quot;a gunowner is 43 times more likely to kill a family&lt;br /&gt;
member than intruder.&amp;quot; How did this fallacy start?  In a 1985 article in the&lt;br /&gt;
New England Journal of Medicine, Drs. Kellerman and Reay described the proper&lt;br /&gt;
way to calculate how many people are saved by guns compared to how many are&lt;br /&gt;
hurt by guns. The benefits should include, in the authors&amp;#039; own words, &amp;quot;cased&lt;br /&gt;
in which burglars or intruders are wounded or frightened away by the use or&lt;br /&gt;
display of a firearm [and] cases in which would-be intruders may have&lt;br /&gt;
purposely avoided a house known to be armed...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, when Kellerman and Reay calculated their comparison, they did NOT&lt;br /&gt;
include those cases, they only counted the times a homeowner KILLED the&lt;br /&gt;
criminal. Because only 0.1% (1 in a 1,000) of defensive gun usage involves&lt;br /&gt;
the death of the criminal, KELLERMAN AND REAY UNDERSTATED THE PROTECTIVE&lt;br /&gt;
BENEFITS OF FIREARMS BY A FACTOR OF 1,000! They turned the truth on its head!&lt;br /&gt;
Why? Kellerman emotionally confessed his anti-gun prejudice at the 1993 HELP&lt;br /&gt;
Conference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Honest analysis, even by Kellerman and Reay&amp;#039;s own standards, shows the &amp;quot;43&lt;br /&gt;
times&amp;quot; comparison to be superficially appealing, but actually a deceitful&lt;br /&gt;
contrivance - unfortunately, a lie that is parroted by the well-funded&lt;br /&gt;
gun-prohibition lobby and by gullible and biased journalists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE &amp;quot;POLICE CHIEF&amp;#039;S&amp;quot; FALLACY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The victim disarmament lobby wants us to believe that it is dangerous to&lt;br /&gt;
resist crimes like rape and assault using a gun - but USING A GUN IS ACTUALLY&lt;br /&gt;
SAFER THAN NOT RESISTING OR RESISTING WITH LESS POWERFUL MEANS. Defense with&lt;br /&gt;
a gun results in fewer injuries (17%) than resisting with less powerful means&lt;br /&gt;
(knives, 40%; other weapon, 22%; physical force, 51%; evasion, 35%; etc.) and&lt;br /&gt;
in fewer injuries than not resisting at all (25%).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When a victim is successful in repelling a crime, the victim is unlikely to&lt;br /&gt;
report the crime, leaving police to deal only with the unsuccessful attempts&lt;br /&gt;
to defend oneself.  Since police are exposed to a skewed sample of failure,&lt;br /&gt;
they can honestly, though incorrectly, conclude that it is dangerous to&lt;br /&gt;
attempt to defend oneself with a gun, the so-called &amp;quot;Police Chief&amp;#039;s Fallacy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
named after the former San Jose, CA Police Chief Joseph McNamara, a vocal gun&lt;br /&gt;
prohibitionist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LICENSING, REGISTRATION, &amp;amp; BANS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a 1991 article in the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Colin Loftin&lt;br /&gt;
attempted to show that Washington, DC&amp;#039;s 1976 ban on new gun sales decreased&lt;br /&gt;
murder. Loftin and his co-authors, funded by YOUR tax money from the anti-gun&lt;br /&gt;
Centers for Disease Control (CDC), produced a piece of &amp;quot;research&amp;quot; with&lt;br /&gt;
several major flaws. Despite these flaws, the editorial board of the New&lt;br /&gt;
England Journal of Medicine, known for its anti-gun bias, published the&lt;br /&gt;
article anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most shocking amongst the dozen flaws:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  the apparent homicide drop began during 1974, 2 years BEFORE the gun law -&lt;br /&gt;
so how could the law be responsible for the temporary drop?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* if the gun freeze were responsible for the homicide drop, we would expect&lt;br /&gt;
the drop to continue - the law hasn&amp;#039;t changed, but the overall Washington, DC&lt;br /&gt;
homicide rate has skyrocketed to 8 TIMES THE NATIONAL AVERAGE since 1988.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  justifiable and excusable homicides, including those by police officers,&lt;br /&gt;
were treated the same as murders and were not excluded from the study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  the study used raw numbers rather than population corrected rates, so did&lt;br /&gt;
not correct for the 20% population decrease in Washington, DC during the&lt;br /&gt;
study period or for the 25% increase in the control population - the imagined&lt;br /&gt;
drop in total homicides was not due to the gun law, as Loftin claimed, but&lt;br /&gt;
was due to other factors, such as the population drop!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;guns cause murder,&amp;quot; why doesn&amp;#039;t Virginia, the alleged &amp;quot;easy purchase&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
source of DC&amp;#039;s guns, have DC&amp;#039;s murder rate?  The black teenage male homicide&lt;br /&gt;
rate in DC is 227 per 100,000, yet less than 7 for rural, middle-aged white&lt;br /&gt;
men, the US group for whom gun ownership is highest - there is an inverse&lt;br /&gt;
relationship between homicide and gun density.  Homicide rates have been&lt;br /&gt;
falling for decades for every group EXCEPT inner-city teenage males, the&lt;br /&gt;
group for whom gun ownership is ALREADY illegal throughout the entire US.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO RESEARCH THAT SHOWS LICENSING, REGISTRATION, WAITING&lt;br /&gt;
PERIODS, OR GUN BANS DECREASE CRIME IN THE LEAST - obviously criminals that&lt;br /&gt;
murder, rape and deal drugs won&amp;#039;t comply with any gun law. It is only good&lt;br /&gt;
citizens that will be disarmed, defenseless, dialing 911, and dependent upon&lt;br /&gt;
the dubious resources and questionable will of a capricious, rapacious,&lt;br /&gt;
incompetent, and uncaring government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE &amp;#039;ASSAULT WEAPONS&amp;quot; DECEPTION&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is not just the American Medical Association, Handgun Control Inc. (HCI)&lt;br /&gt;
and the media that have hysterically and grossly exaggerated the criminal use&lt;br /&gt;
of semiautomatic guns.  The California Attorney General&amp;#039;s Office conducted&lt;br /&gt;
two statewide studies of the use of &amp;quot;assault weapons&amp;quot; in crime.  Both the&lt;br /&gt;
1988 Helsley and the 1990 Johnson studies showed that such guns almost never&lt;br /&gt;
used in crime, EVEN IN THE MAJOR CENTERS OF DRUG VIOLENCE.  Criminals prefer&lt;br /&gt;
concealable weapons, not big rifles and shotguns. The Attorney General office&lt;br /&gt;
ignored and denied the existence of the studies until the studies were leaked&lt;br /&gt;
to the press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of over two dozen published studies on &amp;quot;assault weapons,&amp;quot; only one FLAWED&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;study&amp;quot; done by two newspaper reporters, the Cox newspaper study, suggested&lt;br /&gt;
that, EVEN IN THE HIGHEST CRIME AREAS, semiautomatic guns were used in more&lt;br /&gt;
than 0 to 3% of crimes. The Cox &amp;quot;study&amp;quot; is invalid because it was based on&lt;br /&gt;
gun traces. The FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF), and&lt;br /&gt;
the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress have all&lt;br /&gt;
explained why gun traces cannot be used for statistical purpose - simply,&lt;br /&gt;
because guns are CHOSEN for tracing, such traces do not represent a true&lt;br /&gt;
SAMPLING of the kinds of guns used in crime.  THE COX &amp;quot;STUDY&amp;quot; EXAGGERATED THE&lt;br /&gt;
USE OF &amp;quot;ASSAULT WEAPONS&amp;quot; IN CRIME FROM 3 TO OVER 100 TIMES, depending on the&lt;br /&gt;
definition of &amp;quot;assault weapon&amp;quot; and the locale studied.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Almost all of these newly fearsome, expensive target rifles banned are&lt;br /&gt;
functionally like guns designed 100 years ago!  The Los Angeles riots and&lt;br /&gt;
other disasters show us that these so-called &amp;quot;assault weapons&amp;quot; are often the&lt;br /&gt;
most appropriate weapons for self-protection by good citizens against mob and&lt;br /&gt;
gang violence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE &amp;quot;RELATIVES &amp;amp; FRIENDS&amp;quot; FALLACY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gun prohibitionists would have us believe that most murders involve ordinary&lt;br /&gt;
people driven to kill in a sudden fit of rage only because a gun was present.&lt;br /&gt;
This is based on HCI&amp;#039;s distortion of the FBI Uniform Crime Report statistics.&lt;br /&gt;
 To the FBI, a murderer or rapist that lives in the victim&amp;#039;s apartment&lt;br /&gt;
building or dueling drug dealers are &amp;quot;acquaintances.&amp;quot;  These are the &amp;quot;friends&lt;br /&gt;
and family&amp;quot; that HCI says kill each other - DEFINITELY NOT LIKE THE FRIENDS&lt;br /&gt;
AND FAMILY YOU AND I HAVE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Almost all the &amp;quot;relatives&amp;quot; killed each year are the very same men, well-known&lt;br /&gt;
to the police, that have been brutalizing their wives, girlfriends, and&lt;br /&gt;
children for years - those men are killed in self-defense. Would it be more&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;politically correct&amp;quot; if those women or children were killed by their&lt;br /&gt;
abusers?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Law professor Don Kates has written, &amp;quot;Far from being ordinary, otherwise&lt;br /&gt;
law-abiding citizens, those who commit murders, as every study of homicide&lt;br /&gt;
shows, are real criminals with long histories of violence against the people&lt;br /&gt;
around them...Indicative of this are FBI statistics showing that 74.7% of&lt;br /&gt;
persons arrested for murder had been arrested previously for a violent felony&lt;br /&gt;
or burglary...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CONCLUSIONS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a dozen national studies show, including a study by the National Institute&lt;br /&gt;
of Justice and two studies commissioned by gun-prohibition organization, GUNS&lt;br /&gt;
DO PROTECT US!  GUNS ARE USED DEFENSIVELY BY GOOD PEOPLE 1 GO 2.4 MILLION&lt;br /&gt;
TIMES PER YEAR, far exceeding all reliable estimates of criminal misuse.&lt;br /&gt;
Using a gun to resist a crime or assault is safer than not resisting at all&lt;br /&gt;
or resisting with means other than firearms. Guns not only repel crime, guns&lt;br /&gt;
deter crime as is shown by numerous surveys of criminals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The studies proving the ineffectiveness and the dangers of gun prohibition&lt;br /&gt;
are met with &amp;quot;if it saves only one life...&amp;quot;  The most loving person, however,&lt;br /&gt;
must admit that A GOOD PERSON&amp;#039;S LIFE LOST BECAUSE A GUN WAS ABSENT IS AT&lt;br /&gt;
LEAST AS VALUABLE AS A LIFE LOST BECAUSE A GUN WAS PRESENT. Since 50 to 75&lt;br /&gt;
lives are saved by a gun for every life lost to a gun, we must see deceitful&lt;br /&gt;
images that pluck at our heartstrings for the lies they are - not a basis for&lt;br /&gt;
public policy - even when a doctor, a policeman, or a medical journal is&lt;br /&gt;
telling the lie!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HOW CAN YOU HELP?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
SPREAD THE TRUTH! Make and distribute copies of this brochure, even to&lt;br /&gt;
advocates of &amp;quot;gun control.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WRITE YOUR FEDERAL AND STATE LEGISLATORS.  Insist that public policy be&lt;br /&gt;
formulated using honest data and that their be no taxpayer funding of biased&lt;br /&gt;
or incompetent research by the CDC or any other tax-funded group. Insist that&lt;br /&gt;
taxpayer-funded studies, like the assault weapon studies by the California&lt;br /&gt;
Attorney General&amp;#039;s Office, be made public, not suppressed because the results&lt;br /&gt;
were &amp;quot;politically incorrect.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WRITE newspapers, TV, and medical journals and tell them that you will not&lt;br /&gt;
tolerate dishonest or imbalanced reporting on gun control and other issues.&lt;br /&gt;
Expose the fallacies and show them the honest data.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
GET INVOLVED AND VOTE for legislators that are truthful and that support your&lt;br /&gt;
freedoms to defend yourself, your family, and your community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
DONATE to our group and others that support your rights to protect yourself&lt;br /&gt;
from criminals, crazies, and tyrants.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
FOR FURTHER READING...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
POINT BLANK by Gary Kleck Ph.D. is a comprehensive evaluation of the research&lt;br /&gt;
on gun control and violence available from the publisher, Aldine de Gruyter,&lt;br /&gt;
at: (914) 747-0110.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE SAMURAI, THE MOUNTIE, AND THE COWBOY:  SHOULD AMERICA ADOPT THE GUN&lt;br /&gt;
CONTROLS OF OTHER DEMOCRACIES? By David Kopel&lt;br /&gt;
JD is a comprehensive cross-cultural comparison of gun control and violence&lt;br /&gt;
in other countries available from the publisher, Prometheus Press, at: (716)&lt;br /&gt;
691-0133.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
============================================================&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once again, please circulate this file as widely as possible, and do it&lt;br /&gt;
today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Thanks to all for reading,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 John Marshall&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 reading,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 John Marshall&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Maintenance script</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>