ParaNet BBS/em
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| File Name: | em.txt |
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| Author: | Unknown |
| Date: | Unknown |
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| BBS Main Page: | ParaNet Main Page |
| Key Words: | ParaNet, UFO, Ufology |
(6910) Wed 28 Oct 92 12:44p
By: Travis Stone
To: All
Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 6962>
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Date: 28 Oct 92 14:24:42 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Message-ID: <stone.720282282@cwis>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
reliable motorists have reported just such a thing happening
(the stopping, not the wadding). To my way of thinking, this
REALLY puts an odd spin on the UFO phenomenon, because I always
assumed that they were objects which operated by recognizable
and familiar physical laws through esoteric applications of
same.
As a disclaimer on the behalf of my friend, I must state that
neither he nor I claim to be E&M experts, or automotive engineers;
by virtue of his extensive background in electronics I look
upon him as a reliable---please note---SOURCE OF OPINION on
electrical matters who is most likely more conversant and
knowledgable in these matters than the bulk majority of us who
read and post to this group, and I thought it would be of some
technical interest for the alt.alien.visitors "gang" to hear
the thoughts of such a person upon this puzzling aspect of
UFO behavior.
Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
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(6962) Wed 28 Oct 92 5:59p
By: Rod Beckwith
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 6910<>6966
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith)
Date: 28 Oct 92 16:53:06 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Message-ID: <1992Oct28.165306.15132@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Travis[you write];
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
This is totally untrue.......When I was in highschool, my friends & I were
into CB radios. One of my friends had a portable 1000w bi-linear amplifier
&
on occasion when we keyed up the mike at a stop sign/light we could
shutdown some of the newer model cars. The ones with electronic ignition &
or computers on board. It didn't work all the time, but often enough to get
a laugh out of it.
Why do you think the FCC has regulations on how much power you can use? If
you have too much it interferes with everything, hospitals monitors,
pacemakers, etc.
I think that it wouldn't take anything that special to knock out an
electrical system of any type, especially with no shielding. The paralysis
of the bodies
of abductees I think is another method of electrical overload to the
nervous system. It might be some form of condtioned power tuned to our
internal electrical system. I.E. A perfect TAZER GUN.
Think about it.
Rod
--
Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
|$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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(6966) Wed 28 Oct 92 5:59p
By: Anthony Arviola
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 6962<>7150
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony Arviola)
Date: 28 Oct 92 12:19:08 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Message-ID: <ADA.92Oct28121908@zip.larc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720282282@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes:
I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
...
Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
Consider the radar arrays on navy ship have EM pulses strong enough to
fry you and your eggs in one sweep. Yet, none of the ship's metal crumples.
Consider that an EM pulse can destroy many chips and their memory.
Consider that a Coke can can be crushed by a magnetic field...if it has
the right amount of current running through it.
Conclusion. There is not enough information to conclude that a car has
to be crushed in order to have it cut off. Chances are that it could be
cut off as a previous post has given in example.
Good day,
Tony
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(7150) Thu 29 Oct 92 12:25p
By: Corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 6966<>7167
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Date: 28 Oct 92 19:12:48 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University
Message-ID: <1992Oct28.191248.20267@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
T.R. Stone talked about EM effects on cars, and how they'd have to be
crumpled up like tinfoil in order for this to occur. How's this for a
scenario: If the little grey guys are from another dimension, wouldn't
it follow that they would adhere to the physical laws from their dimen-
sion? It's entirely possible that there exists somewhere a place where
right-angle turns in mid-flight, coming to a dead stop from several
thousand miles an hour, and EM effects without accompanying effects are
possible. T.R., any response?
Barb
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(7167) Thu 29 Oct 92 12:25p
By: Steve Gamble X3293
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7150<>7254
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From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Date: 29 Oct 92 11:10:52 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Message-ID: <1992Oct29.111052.21264@crc.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
About 15 years ago I attended a lecture by Alan Watts who I think was a
physics lecturer at a university. He had done some work on magnetic fields
and car stops. He found that by putting a large alternating field around the
ignition coil he could get the engine to stall. The problem he had was the
one you highlighted. To generate a field of sufficent strength would mean that
the car would be stuck to the bottom of any possible 'UFO'.
A second method I have heard suggested is that if rather than a magnetic field
some form of ionisation exists that this would cause current to leak from the
ignition system. If 'UFO's ionise air this could account for reports of glowing
objects seen at night.
I am not a physicist or engineer, so I am just selling as bought.
FYI: Around 10 years ago the British UFO Research Association produced a
catalogue of over 400 cases involing vehicle interference. I believe that
the Center for UFO Studies has also recently produced a similar work.
(Address for both these organisations is in the FAQ)
Steve
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
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(7254) Thu 29 Oct 92 6:20p
By: Tom Randolph
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7167<>7360
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Date: 29 Oct 92 10:33:48 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Message-ID: <1992Oct29.154254.29373@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
writes...
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up.
>T.R. Stone
Some vehicles, notably Toyotas, are very susceptible to radio frequencies
getting into thier computer ignitions. Ham operators can almost shut off a
Toyota's engine at will, remotely.
Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
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(7360) Fri 30 Oct 92 12:45p
By: Leonard Spani
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7254<>7440
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani)
Date: 29 Oct 92 21:48:42 GMT
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Message-ID: <1992Oct29.214842.9759@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct29.154254.29373@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, randolph@est.enet.dec.com
(Tom Randolph) writes:
|>
|> In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) wri
tes...
|> >I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
|> >a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
|> >fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
|> >departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
|> >up.
|> >T.R. Stone
|>
|> Some vehicles, notably Toyotas, are very susceptible to radio frequencies
|> getting into thier computer ignitions. Ham operators can almost shut off a
|> Toyota's engine at will, remotely.
|>
|> Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
|> computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
|>
|> -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\ | (disclaimer-p) |
| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \?!// | t |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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(7440) Fri 30 Oct 92 5:54p
By: Gvb@tefs1.acd.com
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7360<>7444
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: gvb@acd4.acd.com (gvb@TEFS1.acd.com )
Date: 30 Oct 92 15:44:37 GMT
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.154437.16939@acd4.acd.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <ADA.92Oct28121908@zip.larc.nasa.gov> ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony
Arviola) writes:
>In article <stone.720282282@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes
:
> I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
> a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
> fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
> departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
> up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
> out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
> would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
> should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
> degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
> magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
> we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
>
> The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
> down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
> the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
> ...
> Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>
> T.R. Stone
> University of Nebraska-Omaha
> Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
>
>Consider the radar arrays on navy ship have EM pulses strong enough to
>fry you and your eggs in one sweep. Yet, none of the ship's metal crumples.
>
>Consider that an EM pulse can destroy many chips and their memory.
>
>Consider that a Coke can can be crushed by a magnetic field...if it has
>the right amount of current running through it.
>
>Conclusion. There is not enough information to conclude that a car has
>to be crushed in order to have it cut off. Chances are that it could be
>cut off as a previous post has given in example.
>
>Good day,
>Tony
In most abduction reports that involve an automobile there is an
element that is almost always present. That is that fact that the
car's starter will turn the engine but the engine won't start. In
pre-1975 vehicles this is just as common as in later model autos with
electronic ignition. The later being easier to kill because of the
control electronics being transistorized. I dispute the original
technician's opinion since there have been articles in some HAM radio
magazines about some cars' suseptability to RF interference to the
control systems. I have been interested in HAM radio for years. The
typical HAM transmitter puts out less than 50 watts. The reports are
that some cars simply "shut down" when the transmitter is keyed. In
these same reports, there has been nothing said about fenders
buckling. If the afore mentioned tech was refering only to magnetism,
he's probably right. However, EM refers to the entire spectrum and
includes RF. One thing I would also mention is that not only do cars
stop but quite often the commercial power distribution grid is
disrupted. My guess is that if these aliens really exist and are
causing these things to happen (cars stopping, house power
fluctuating) they either a) have more power at their disposal and are
using it at the time of the disruption than we can imagine or b) what
they are using we know nothing about and happens to cause the
disruptions.
Gregg.
--
Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com
All information will be strictly confidential.
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(7444) Fri 30 Oct 92 5:54p
By: Robert A Rawlinson
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7440<>7447
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From: 34R33O7@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Robert A Rawlinson)
Date: 30 Oct 92 18:53:11 GMT
Organization: Central Michigan University
Message-ID: <92304.13531234R33O7@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
A diesel engine has no electric or electronic ignition since it depends on
the heat of compression to ignite the fuel.
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(7447) Fri 30 Oct 92 5:54p
By: Tom Randolph
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7444<>7554
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Date: 30 Oct 92 10:18:36 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.154220.21524@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct29.214842.9759@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca
(Leonard Spani) writes...
>There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
>diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
>| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\ | (disclaimer-p) |
Well, diesels have no ignition system to speak of, so it points to the car's
ignition, as we speculated. Exactly WHY it fails is anybody's guess.
It would have to either short out, so the sparks never reach the plugs, or
maybe get so swamped with energy that the plugs fire continuously, burning up
the fuel-air charge as it enters the cylinder, and producing no power... The
former seems unlikely, mainly cuz I can't think of a good way to do it
remotely. The latter is probably possible with a high enough electromagnetic or
static field.
BTW, the underside of the engine compartment is realtively unshielded, so I
don't think the car's body panels would be that great a shield. Spark plug
noise gets out of there without much problem, and gets into AM and CB radios.
The reason chicken wire works is that there's no holes in chicken wire bigger
than an inch or two - too small for RF waves too "fit" through, for lack of a
better explanation. The empty space between your engine and the ground is just
a bit bigger than that! :-) Note how small the holes have to be in the screen
on your microwave oven's door - much higher freq., much smaller wavelength,
screen has to be tighter to trap all the energy.
-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
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(7554) Sat 31 Oct 92 12:12p
By: Mr G S Sutherland
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7447<>7630
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From: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland)
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:43:04 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Message-ID: <1cs388INNbn7@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct29.214842.9759@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca
(Leonard Spani) writes:
[Stuff deleted]
+|> In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
+|>writes...
+|> Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
+|> computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
+|>
+|> -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
[Stuff deleted]
+There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
+diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
+
+
+--
+***********************************************************************
+| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\ | (disclaimer-p) |
+| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \?!// | t |
+*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
A diesel engine does not use spark plugs, since it ignites the fuel/air
mix by compression. Hence there will possibly be no electrics in it,
unless of course the fuel and oil pumps are electrical as opposed to
mechanical.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of mechanics is rather
weak.
I've also heard of cases of UFOs shutting of local electricity supplies
as they fly over residential areas. This too may be of help.
Graeme Sutherland.
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(7630) Sat 31 Oct 92 9:36p
By: Rich Payne
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: <7554
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From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Date: 31 Oct 92 19:38:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Message-ID: <1992Oct31.193833.19738@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720282282@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
I would imagine that a stationary magnetic field strong enough to saturate
the core of the coil would do it. The big problem here is what without
knowing what kind of fields were involved, it is hard to even guess what
might be needed.
BTW, someone mentioned that the engine block would shield the ignition
system. The ignition system usually sits above the engine block, so
it would act as a shield only is the source were below ground.
>The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
>down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
>the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
>reliable motorists have reported just such a thing happening
>(the stopping, not the wadding). To my way of thinking, this
>REALLY puts an odd spin on the UFO phenomenon, because I always
>assumed that they were objects which operated by recognizable
>and familiar physical laws through esoteric applications of
>same.
Years ago, when vaccuum tubes were used, something like my HP-48SX
would indeed be impossible. A computer with that much power would
probably occupy a site the size of Washington DC. But through application
of finess, and other physical laws, we now do the same thing with
silicon, and a few 1.5V batteries. If we assume that an alien craft
is advanced to us in the same fashion as my HP-48SX and a vaccuum
tube computer, I think we need postulate no new physics.
>As a disclaimer on the behalf of my friend, I must state that
>neither he nor I claim to be E&M experts, or automotive engineers;
>by virtue of his extensive background in electronics I look
>upon him as a reliable---please note---SOURCE OF OPINION on
>electrical matters who is most likely more conversant and
>knowledgable in these matters than the bulk majority of us who
>read and post to this group, and I thought it would be of some
>technical interest for the alt.alien.visitors "gang" to hear
>the thoughts of such a person upon this puzzling aspect of
>UFO behavior.
To be fair, very few have experience with large moving magnetic fields.
It is difficult to have an informed opinion on matters that are esoteric
even today. Now someone from SLAC or someone involved with NMR might
have a better understanding of these things. They are not properly in
the realm of electronics anyway, although electronics are used for control
purposes.
>Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>
>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha
>Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
Rich
payner@netcom.com
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(6970) Wed 28 Oct 92 5:59p
By: Travis Stone
To: All
Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7256>
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From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Date: 28 Oct 92 18:20:27 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Message-ID: <stone.720296427@cwis>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Rod B.: You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
shield? Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...
And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
good...
And insofar as microwaves doing you a damage: mightn't
that have something to do with the characteristics of
the dielectrics which make up organic substances like
proteins, as well as the frequency of the EM radiation
involved?
I appreciate your technical input on this, Rod---
this is just the sort of scientific cross-fertilization
I was hoping for; and, by gum, you've brought up some
pretty points.
Technically speaking.
Thanks for the input (to all who reply)!
T.R. Stone
Blah-blah-blah, etc., etc.
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(7256) Thu 29 Oct 92 6:20p
By: Anthony Arviola
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 6970<>7362
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony Arviola)
Date: 29 Oct 92 13:40:57 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Message-ID: <ADA.92Oct29134057@zip.larc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720296427@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes:
Rod B.: You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
shield? Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...
You've got a good point. But I'd like to add that the metal body of the car,
not the block could be a source of shielding. As some others have pointed out
though, certain radio signals (CB, ham, etc) have been know to knock out
come cars. How they do it, I'm not 100% sure.
And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
good...
To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to see
how it is done.
And insofar as microwaves doing you a damage: mightn't
that have something to do with the characteristics of
the dielectrics which make up organic substances like
proteins, as well as the frequency of the EM radiation
involved?
True, but the point is that a lot of things can be done with EM depending
on its frequency and polarization. That along with natural resonance of
the target object (in my example, the water and other goodies that make up
you.)
I appreciate your technical input on this, Rod---
this is just the sort of scientific cross-fertilization
I was hoping for; and, by gum, you've brought up some
pretty points.
T.R. Stone
Hey, I'm a seeker of knowledge myself. Anyone else got ideas.
Good day,
Tony
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(7362) Fri 30 Oct 92 12:45p
By: Usenet News
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7256<>7368
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
Date: 29 Oct 92 19:54:35 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Message-ID: <1cpfhrINN20f@gap.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <ADA.92Oct29134057@zip.larc.nasa.gov> ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov
(Anthony Arviola) writes:
> In article <stone.720296427@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
writes:
>
> And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
> equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> good...
>
> To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to
see
> how it is done.
I've seen this done. What happens is you take an enormous capacitor,
charge it up to a few kilovolts, take about four turns' worth of fairly
low resistance wire and wrap it around the Coke can, and short the wire
across the can. The enormous change in magnetic field sets up a
tremendous pulse of counter current in the Coke can, whose magnetic field
interacts with the field of the wire, and causes the part of the can
carrying the current to shrink rapidly. It's called the "theta pinch"
effect or something. It's for real, can be verified with more E&M
calculations than I'm willing to do right now, and (as previously
mentioned), I've seen it done.
The derivation is probably too lengthy (and involves too many math
symbols) to go into on the network, but it's true.
As for this happening to cars, you would need a truly enormous change in
magnetic field (for those of you who don't remember E&M, a *CHANGE* in
magnetic field induces a magnetic field in something else) to crush the
car. Much smaller electromagnetic disturbances might scramble the engine,
but don't take my word for that.
Mike A.
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(7368) Fri 30 Oct 92 12:45p
By: Phillip J. Birmingham
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7362<>7370
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: birmingh@fnalf.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Date: 30 Oct 92 03:52:43 GMT
Organization: Blackriver Recorporations, Inc.
Message-ID: <1992Oct29.215243.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <ADA.92Oct29134057@zip.larc.nasa.gov>, ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov
(Anthony Arviola) writes:
> In article <stone.720296427@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) write
s:
> And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
> equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> good...
>
> To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to see
> how it is done.
Well, I'm not sure about crumpling cans, but one of the retired
professors from my research group is getting rich off an idea he had to
separate aluminum cans from other garbage.
It basically uses a rapidly varying magnetic field to induce
currents in the can, allowing you to give the can a "kick." I forget
the details, but the demo model he showed us knocked a Sprite can a
good ten feet, and put a pretty healthy dent in it, too. I imagine if
you cranked the thing all the way to eleven, you might be able to smush
the thing.
Disclaimer: Since the qualifier, I have forgotten almost all I
know about electrodynamics. It seems that this shouldn't work with a
perfect conductor (it does work with pop cans); the field from the
induced current should cancel the external field and that should be
that. Maybe the nonzero resistance of aluminum is the key. Maybe I'll
figure this out instead of working on my thesis.
--
Phillip J. Birmingham birmingh@fnal.fnal.gov
I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
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(7370) Fri 30 Oct 92 12:45p
By: Jeff
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7368<>7446
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff)
Date: 30 Oct 92 02:52:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.025235.19931@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
.but what are auras and big foot
doing here?
Mr Stone, I appreciated your response.
Bye,
Tony
Well, Tony, they are expanding our concepts of what is possible. They are
the extended cousins of the UFO question. They are the outerlying
questions of this enigma inside of a riddle. And they most certainly belong
here.
The only think that does not belong here are people that want to limit
the discussion as it relates to UFO's and ET's.
If you want an anal-retentive discussion, talk to Gregg.
Jeff-
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(7446) Fri 30 Oct 92 5:54p
By: Kevin Quinn
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7370<>7552
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:51:03 GMT
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.195103.11480@pony.Ingres.COM>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Seems lots of folk have gotten hung up on induction of enormous magnetic
fields from UFO's, and ramifications thereof...
Let's keep it simple. How about induction if a unwanted signal on a
unshielded wire that's part of a computer command and control circuit?
As I recall, the militarty lost a number of choppers through this effect -
when flying the suckers close to powerful radio frequency emitters. (I'm
sure someone out there will remember the particular chopper - or try
sci.military). It is/was incidents like that which promote the increased use
of fiber optics in command and control systems.
While I'm not exactly a believer in non-earthly UFO's (the energy required to
get here is ridiculous, barring Scotty and his dilithium crystals...), we
can at least keep the focus of purported side effects within the bounds of
practicality.
Happy Halloween, all. I'm gonna dress as a Grey and boil some managers
around here...
kbq
--
Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com
| {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again.
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(7552) Sat 31 Oct 92 12:11p
By: Anthony Arviola
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7446<>7555
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony Arviola)
Date: 30 Oct 92 15:47:45 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Message-ID: <ADA.92Oct30154745@zip.larc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct30.025235.19931@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes:
.but what are auras and big foot
doing here?
Mr Stone, I appreciated your response.
Bye,
Tony
Well, Tony, they are expanding our concepts of what is possible. They are
the extended cousins of the UFO question. They are the outerlying
questions of this enigma inside of a riddle. And they most certainly belong
here.
The only think that does not belong here are people that want to limit
the discussion as it relates to UFO's and ET's.
Well then, let us talk origins, then Jesus, then religion, then morality,
then the death penalty, then abortion, then domestic violence, then football.
Who do you think will win this weeks games? Any Redskins fans out there?
Get real. These things may be related to alien visitors (the name of this
news group), I'll give you that. But where do you draw the line? I agree
you don't draw a line if you don't want to stop being open. I AM interested
in Bigfoot, and auras, and the JFK assasination, but if I want to partake in
discussion of one of these things, I would like to do so in a news group
related to these.
The universe is beautifully interconnected. The physical and no doubt meta-
physical world is intertwined by cause and effect. Consider a simple system
like a car. If I wanted to learn how a carberator works, I would look at
the carberator to find out. Of course, the carberator depends on a vacuum
system, as the intake system depends on the carberator (ie your point is taken)
but I couldn't take a look at the intake system and say "so that's how a carb.
works". I would instead subscribe to alt.auto.carberators and discuss it.
But we don't know anything, and we can't even prove that...right?
The writer(s) of the FAQ have some good ideas. Have you checked it out yet?
Trying do deal with lower vibrations/
have a good day,
Tony
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(7555) Sat 31 Oct 92 12:12p
By: Usenet News
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7552<>7562
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@UFGATE newsin 1.27
Date: 30 Oct 92 22:21:52 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Message-ID: <1csci0INN2n7@gap.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct30.195103.11480@pony.Ingres.COM> kevinq@Ingres.COM
(Kevin Quinn) writes:
> While I'm not exactly a believer in non-earthly UFO's (the energy
required to
> get here is ridiculous, barring Scotty and his dilithium crystals...),
Theoretically speaking, you very well might be wrong on the energy. It is
a fact (which I could probably derive for the rest of the group if anyone
wants) that the energy needed to reach GEO from rest on the Earth's
surface is about the same amount needed to achieve solar escape velocity
from GEO.
Two caveats in this, though:
1) Other systems may have different orbital dynamics, i.e. escape energy
from their solar system is far too much. This isn't enough, though,
because escape energy might also be far LESS than the energy needed for
planetary orbit. So the other caveat is much better:
2) Practically, this would be almost useless. Sure, you escape the solar
system, but at a snail's pace. To actually get anywhere in under a
lifetime, you do need the "ridiculous" amount of energy that Kevin
mentioned.
Of course, that may not matter to aliens that can build an ecosphere in a
spaceship, and even less to aliens that are also nearly immortal (i.e.
more than 10^4 year lifespan [exponential notation]). Don't anyone object
that such aliens wouldn't care about us, now; how can humans speculate on
the motivations of aliens that think far differently from (grammar?) us?
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a |
| | giant badger..." |
| | - Monty Python and the |
| magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
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(7562) Sat 31 Oct 92 12:12p
By: Jeff
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: <7555
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff)
Date: 31 Oct 92 00:06:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Message-ID: <1992Oct31.000636.3699@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <ADA.92Oct30154745@zip.larc.nasa.gov> ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony
Arviola) writes:
>In article <1992Oct30.025235.19931@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes:
>
(Rubbish Deleted)
>
>The writer(s) of the FAQ have some good ideas. Have you checked it out yet?
>
>Trying do deal with lower vibrations/
>have a good day,
>Tony
>
*I AM* one of the authors of the FAQ, thankyou very much.
I don't want to argue about it. If it is realted in some way to the UFO
puzzle, and you want to talk about it, this is the place. If you don't want
to read it, hit your "n" key, period. End of discussion.
Jeff-
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(6971) Wed 28 Oct 92 5:59p
By: Travis Stone
To: All
Re: Apology/correction To "shielding"
St:
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Date: 28 Oct 92 18:36:28 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Message-ID: <stone.720297388@cwis>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
To Rod Beckwith and everyone else who caught my blunder:
I accidentally imputed the observations concerning un-
shielded objects, Coke cans, and microwaves to Mr. Rod
Beckwith; Mr. B. was not the source of the observations---
it was Anthony A. whose posted reply appears above my
original.
I wish to apologize for any confusion my carelessness in
citing others may have created, and wish to thank Anthony
for his technical objections. Your patience (Rod, Anthony,
everyone else who tries to follow this thread) is greatly
appreciated.
Keep it coming, gang....
T.R. Stone
Etc., etc.
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(7447) Fri 30 Oct 92 5:54p
By: Tom Randolph
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7444<>7554
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Date: 30 Oct 92 10:18:36 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.154220.21524@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct29.214842.9759@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca
(Leonard Spani) writes...
>There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
>diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
>| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\ | (disclaimer-p) |
Well, diesels have no ignition system to speak of, so it points to the car's
ignition, as we speculated. Exactly WHY it fails is anybody's guess.
It would have to either short out, so the sparks never reach the plugs, or
maybe get so swamped with energy that the plugs fire continuously, burning up
the fuel-air charge as it enters the cylinder, and producing no power... The
former seems unlikely, mainly cuz I can't think of a good way to do it
remotely. The latter is probably possible with a high enough electromagnetic or
static field.
BTW, the underside of the engine compartment is realtively unshielded, so I
don't think the car's body panels would be that great a shield. Spark plug
noise gets out of there without much problem, and gets into AM and CB radios.
The reason chicken wire works is that there's no holes in chicken wire bigger
than an inch or two - too small for RF waves too "fit" through, for lack of a
better explanation. The empty space between your engine and the ground is just
a bit bigger than that! :-) Note how small the holes have to be in the screen
on your microwave oven's door - much higher freq., much smaller wavelength,
screen has to be tighter to trap all the energy.
-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
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(7554) Sat 31 Oct 92 12:12p
By: Mr G S Sutherland
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7447<>7630
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland)
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:43:04 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Message-ID: <1cs388INNbn7@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct29.214842.9759@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca
(Leonard Spani) writes:
[Stuff deleted]
+|> In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
+|>writes...
+|> Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
+|> computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
+|>
+|> -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
[Stuff deleted]
+There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
+diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
+
+
+--
+***********************************************************************
+| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\ | (disclaimer-p) |
+| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \?!// | t |
+*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
A diesel engine does not use spark plugs, since it ignites the fuel/air
mix by compression. Hence there will possibly be no electrics in it,
unless of course the fuel and oil pumps are electrical as opposed to
mechanical.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of mechanics is rather
weak.
I've also heard of cases of UFOs shutting of local electricity supplies
as they fly over residential areas. This too may be of help.
Graeme Sutherland.
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(7630) Sat 31 Oct 92 9:36p
By: Rich Payne
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 7554<>7635
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Date: 31 Oct 92 19:38:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Message-ID: <1992Oct31.193833.19738@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720282282@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up. "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
I would imagine that a stationary magnetic field strong enough to saturate
the core of the coil would do it. The big problem here is what without
knowing what kind of fields were involved, it is hard to even guess what
might be needed.
BTW, someone mentioned that the engine block would shield the ignition
system. The ignition system usually sits above the engine block, so
it would act as a shield only is the source were below ground.
>The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
>down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
>the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
>reliable motorists have reported just such a thing happening
>(the stopping, not the wadding). To my way of thinking, this
>REALLY puts an odd spin on the UFO phenomenon, because I always
>assumed that they were objects which operated by recognizable
>and familiar physical laws through esoteric applications of
>same.
Years ago, when vaccuum tubes were used, something like my HP-48SX
would indeed be impossible. A computer with that much power would
probably occupy a site the size of Washington DC. But through application
of finess, and other physical laws, we now do the same thing with
silicon, and a few 1.5V batteries. If we assume that an alien craft
is advanced to us in the same fashion as my HP-48SX and a vaccuum
tube computer, I think we need postulate no new physics.
>As a disclaimer on the behalf of my friend, I must state that
>neither he nor I claim to be E&M experts, or automotive engineers;
>by virtue of his extensive background in electronics I look
>upon him as a reliable---please note---SOURCE OF OPINION on
>electrical matters who is most likely more conversant and
>knowledgable in these matters than the bulk majority of us who
>read and post to this group, and I thought it would be of some
>technical interest for the alt.alien.visitors "gang" to hear
>the thoughts of such a person upon this puzzling aspect of
>UFO behavior.
To be fair, very few have experience with large moving magnetic fields.
It is difficult to have an informed opinion on matters that are esoteric
even today. Now someone from SLAC or someone involved with NMR might
have a better understanding of these things. They are not properly in
the realm of electronics anyway, although electronics are used for control
purposes.
>Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>
>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha
>Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
Rich
payner@netcom.com
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(7635) Sun 1 Nov 92 12:53a
By: Michael Corbin
To: Travis Stone
Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: Local <7630
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@MSGID: 1:104/428@FidoNet 9900d611
@PID: FM 2.02
> Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
One other thing that is very strange and cannot be explained is the apparent
ability of the motor to start itself without assistance from the driver after
the object has left the area. I believe that this feature has been reported
several times.
I also noticed that Steve Gamble added something to this subject about a
catalog available from CUFOS on EM interference cases. I would recommend this
publication as a good source of information concerning this aspect of the
phenomenon.
Mike
---
* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428)
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(7700) Sun 1 Nov 92 12:01p
By: Robert Dinse
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7562<>7795
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Date: 31 Oct 92 19:51:25 GMT
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Message-ID: <1992Oct31.195125.28356@eskimo.celestial.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <stone.720296427@cwis>, stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
writes:
>
>
> Rod B.: You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
> body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
> wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
> shield? Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
> Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...
I'm not Rod but felt I could address these concerns.
Not really. For starters, the ignition module and wiring is OUTSIDE the
block so the block offers no shielding at all. The metal body of the car
offers some shielding IF the car has a metal body, many modern cars are made
of plastic and fiberglass with just enough metal to provide marginal structural
stability. Even then the shielding is incomplete. Complete magnetic shielding
requires a pefect conductor which the metal a car is made from is not. In fact
the only thing that is is a super-conductor.
To get an idea how effective the ignition shielding on a typical car is,
park on the shoulder of a busy road and put your radio on AM and tune to an
unused portion of the dial. Turn up the volume. You will be able to hear
electromagnetic radiation from the ignition systems of the vast majority of
vehicals that pass you by.
Shielding effectiveness varies with frequency. At a sufficiently high
frequency the typical gaps between body pieces would be more than a wavelenth
making shielding rather ineffecient.
Assuming alien spacecraft really do spit out huge quantities of
electro-magnetic radiation, who knows what frequencies are involved?
> And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
> equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> good...
I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days? This is to suggest they
might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic field
but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.
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(7795) Sun 1 Nov 92 6:01p
By: Usenet News
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7700<>7892
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@UFGATE newsin 1.27
Date: 1 Nov 92 19:09:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Message-ID: <1d1a1hINNcnn@gap.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct31.195125.28356@eskimo.celestial.com>
nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:
> > And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> > being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> > attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> > clunky solenoid? If these situations are physically
> > equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> > good...
>
> I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days? This is to suggest
they
> might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic
field
> but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.
I posted before on this topic, but I'll repeat the bit about the Coke
cans. Even though Coke cans are aluminum, they can crumple due to a large
varying magnetic field. If a wire looped four or five times around the
Coke can is shorted across a huge capacitor (millifarad range) charged to
a few kilovolts, the change in current is so great that a significant
induced current is produced. The interaction between the original
magnetic field and the induced current's magnetic field causes the induced
current path to try to shrink rapidly, pinching off the center of the Coke
can.
The proximity of the wire is crucial, however, and it's unlikely that the
aliens would wrap a few turns of wire around your car.
--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a |
| | giant badger..." |
| | - Monty Python and the |
| magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
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(7892) Mon 2 Nov 92 12:33p
By: Ray Rooney
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: 7795<>7935
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney)
Date: 2 Nov 92 01:31:00 GMT
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434
Message-ID: <5857.1028.uupcb@satalink.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
TO: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
MA>> I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days? This is to suggest
MA>they
MA>> might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic
MA>field
MA>> but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.
MA>I posted before on this topic, but I'll repeat the bit about the Coke
MA>cans. Even though Coke cans are aluminum, they can crumple due to a large
MA>varying magnetic field. If a wire looped four or five times around the
MA>Coke can is shorted across a huge capacitor (millifarad range) charged to
MA>a few kilovolts, the change in current is so great that a significant
MA>induced current is produced. The interaction between the original
MA>magnetic field and the induced current's magnetic field causes the induced
MA>current path to try to shrink rapidly, pinching off the center of the Coke
MA>can.
And this field affects non-ferrous materials? Aluminum is so
non-reactive (magnetically) that it is routinely used for coil forms.
?????
Or is something other than magnetism at work here?
* SLMR 2.1a * Money Talks! - Unfortunately, mine only says "Good Bye"!
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(7935) Mon 2 Nov 92 6:21p
By: Anthony Arviola
To: All
Re: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine Block Serve As Shield?
St: <7892
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony Arviola)
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:20:58 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Message-ID: <ADA.92Nov2122058@zip.larc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Oct31.000636.3699@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes:
(Intentional Rubbish Deleted)
>
*I AM* one of the authors of the FAQ, thankyou very much.
I don't want to argue about it. If it is realted in some way to the UFO
puzzle, and you want to talk about it, this is the place. If you don't want
to read it, hit your "n" key, period. End of discussion.
Jeff-
Sorry, I didn't catch the part about auras and Bigfoot in the FAQ.
But still, good job. I guess, Jeff, my complaint is that my 'n' key
has been getting quit a bit of a workout. Maybe sub-heading A.A.V
would be nice.
Seriously. Help me see the light here. What am I missing? How can John
Winston's announcements about his up coming trips help me in my personal
search for answers. I am being serious. I'm over being defensive, and
am interested in what you have to say. If you could maybe read the posts
of today, and reply on how each post has been helpful, that would be good.
But it's up to you.
I appreciate your time in the matter.
Good Day,
Tony
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(7899) Mon 2 Nov 92 12:34p
By: Marco Fabiani
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: <7635
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@UFGATE newsin 1.27
From: u8706320@cs.uow.edu.au (Marco Fabiani)
Date: 2 Nov 92 14:23:38 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.142338.29576@cs.uow.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> > Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>One other thing that is very strange and cannot be explained is the apparent a
bility of the motor to start itself without assistance from the driver after
the object has left the area. I believe that this feature has been reported
several times.
>I also noticed that Steve Gamble added something to this subject about a catal
og available from CUFOS on EM interference cases. I would recommend this
publication as a good source of information concerning this aspect of the
phenomenon.
>Mike
>--
>Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
>INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Well, one thing that solves most UFO-related problems is the idea of the
time dilation field.
Such a field slows down the passage of time and help to explain:
1. Motors stopping. They don't stop, they're just percieved to not move.
2. Motors starting. They dont start, see note 1.
3. People 'losing' large amounts of time (adbuctees).
4. The incredible abcrobatics UFO's seem to perform.
5. The problem of interstellar travel.
A silly idea I know, but do you have an idea which explains them all?
----------------------Marco G Fabiani @ Wollongong---------------------------
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(8034) Tue 3 Nov 92 12:11p
By: Anthony Arviola
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: 8037>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ada@zip.larc.nasa.gov (Anthony Arviola)
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:56:54 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Message-ID: <ADA.92Nov2125654@zip.larc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Nov2.142338.29576@cs.uow.edu.au> u8706320@cs.uow.edu.au (Marco
Fabiani) writes:
<discussion about cars starting and stopping deleted>
Well, one thing that solves most UFO-related problems is the idea of the
time dilation field.
Such a field slows down the passage of time and help to explain:
1. Motors stopping. They don't stop, they're just percieved to not move.
2. Motors starting. They dont start, see note 1.
3. People 'losing' large amounts of time (adbuctees).
4. The incredible abcrobatics UFO's seem to perform.
5. The problem of interstellar travel.
A silly idea I know, but do you have an idea which explains them all?
----------------------Marco G Fabiani @
Wollongong---------------------------
Does anybody have information about "time dilation". This thought has crossed
my mind before also. It might explain a lot of other things as well. Imagine
proving the unified field theory. Solving the Bermuda Triangle mystery.
And other phenom.
Good Day,
Tony
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(8038) Tue 3 Nov 92 12:11p
By: Bob Manson
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: <8037
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From: manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Manson)
Date: 2 Nov 92 23:35:54 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.233554.25641@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <1992Nov2.221249.18950@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
writes:
>I concluded that this made sense if the dissaperances were the results of
>winter storms and summer storms. I never double checked, wonder if I still
Naw, that's too simple an explanation. What's happening is that the
aliens get together twice an Earth year (why based on Earth's year, I
donno) and play "swap the Earth ships". They actually are supposed to
build fullsize models of Earth's planes and ships, and trade them
(collect the whole set!) but some aliens don't have the time,
patience, skill or inclination to do this & just steal actual Earth
models. I know; I asked an alien once.
I should point out that this probably isn't a serious post (unlike
Rich's very good point), but sometimes people just can't accept the
easy explanations...so here's a good conspriacy theory for you.
(Original theory designed by Mowgli A., with additional nuances and
flourishes added by me to make it plausible).
Bob
manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
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(8800) Sat 7 Nov 92 6:57p
By: Charles Mcgrew
To: All
Re: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
St: <8038
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From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:53:56 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Message-ID: <Nov.5.22.53.56.1992.7543@dropout.rutgers.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes:
I have a book called _The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved_,
but unfortunately I do not remember the author offhand...
... Lawrence David Kusche was the author (Harper and Row, NY, 1975 --
one year after Berlitz's book); "Nova" did a show using his book as a
basis, which I've seen out on video.
One discrepancy that shows up over and over is the claims in
the legend of how ships and planes disappeared in clear
weather.
...quite. Mr. Berlitz does on occasion take liberties (my opinion is
that not everything he writes is false, but everything he writes must
be checked.)
As for the flight of five Navy Avenger torpedo bombers (Flight
19, I think), it is clear from the transcripts of the radio
conversations that the planes experienced a few moments of
disorientation...
... my recollection is very similiar to yours: Kusche's thesis is that
the flight leader had the disorientation, convinced himself that his
compass was wrong, and turned north (followed by the other planes),
rather than west, believing the islands he could see were the Florida
Keys, rather than the little islands off the east coast of Florida --
where he actually was (that in itself is pretty odd, though.) Kusche
believes that the planes all ditched together at sunset, in choppy
weather (since they would have been far to the north, and have ditched
at a time long after Berlitz marked them "gone", the weather could be
calm when Berlitz says the planes were lost, but have deteriorated by
sunset, when Kusche says they were) and they all drowned; and that the
PBY searchplane that disappeared may have been destroyed by an in-air
explosion of its gasoline (something that was not common, but known to
happen.) (I can't remember the radio-traffic stuff, I'll have to go
back and check.)
I remember hearing in recent years that the five planes have
now even been found on the ocean bottom. Anyone know any more
about this?
... I heard about this too, that a diving group found a (single)
plane, and thought it might have been part of "flight 19". However,
since the aircraft numbers were still readable on the found plane, and
we haven't heard anything since, I suspect that it was not a flight-19
plane.
See what panic can do to your reasoning abilities?
... yeah, except one typically does not panic for several hours; a
curious thing about the flight is that given the failure to find
anything after flying north for a while, that the fight did *not* turn
west.
Charles
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ather than the little islands off the east coast of Florida -- where he actually was (that in itself is pretty odd, though.) Kusche believes that the planes all ditched together at sunset, in choppy weather (since they would have been far to the north, and have ditched at a time long after Berlitz marked them "gone", the weather could be calm when Berlitz says the planes were lost, but have deteriorated by sunset, when Kusche says they were) and they all drowned; and that the PBY searchplane that disappeared may have been destroyed by an in-air explosion of its gasoline (something that was not common, but known to happen.) (I can't remember the radio-traffic stuff, I'll have to go back and check.)
I remember hearing in recent years that the five planes have
now even been found on the ocean bottom. Anyone know any more
about this?
... I heard about this too, that a diving group found a (single) plane, and thought it might have been part of "flight 19". However, since the aircraft numbers were still readable on the found plane, and we haven't heard anything since, I suspect that it was not a flight-19 plane.
See what panic can do to your reasoning abilities?
... yeah, except one typically does not panic for several hours; a curious thing about the flight is that given the failure to find anything after flying north for a while, that the fight did *not* turn west.
Charles
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