ParaNet BBS/psurvey
From KB42
ParaNet BBS/psurvey
| File Name: | psurvey.txt |
|---|---|
| Author: | Unknown |
| Date: | Unknown |
| Posting BBS: | Unknown |
| BBS Main Page: | ParaNet Main Page |
| Key Words: | ParaNet, UFO, Ufology |
(6601) Mon 1 Feb 93 2:41a
By: Michael Corbin
To: All
Re: Survey
St: Local Sent 7067>
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I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of
instrumentation and measurement of the UFO phenomenon comes up when we discuss
how to do "real science" in determing what UFOs are. What should we be
attempting to measure and how would we go about doing it, including what types
of instruments could be used to acquire the data.
Thoughts, ideas?
Thanks,
Mike
---
* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428)
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(7067) Thu 4 Feb 93 2:17p
By: Steve Gamble X3293
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 6601<>7343
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From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Date: 2 Feb 93 14:50:50 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Message-ID: <1993Feb2.145050.28020@crc.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <142219.2B6D03FF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>,
Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of instrumentat
ion and measurement of the UFO phenomenon comes up when we discuss how to do
"real science" in determing what UFOs are. What should we be attempting to
measure and how would we > go about doing it, including what types of
instruments could be used to acquire the data.
>
Before you can think about instrumentation you would need to define what sort
of
UFO's you are after.
For example, if you were after some way of instrumenting what Hynek called
Nocturnal Lights you would need different instruments to those you would need
for, say, instrumenting abductions. The simple case would be looking for
Nocturnal Lights. These constitute around 40 percent of all UFO reports.
If you consider that in a very good year there may be as many as 350 reports
for the whole of the United Kingdom, this would approximate to one report per
day. If you consider the UK as being a rectangle approx 250 wide by 600 miles
long, and a UFO may only be visible say 5 miles in any direction from an
observation point, the it would be divided in 25 by 60 - 10 mile square boxes.
This would give you a 1 in 1500 chance each day to see something providing you
observe continuously 24 hours in each day. And this makes no allowance for
dim objects, fog or just looking in the wrong direction at the wrong (?right?)
time!!
It would be quite an undertaking. You have to remember that over 90% of all
UFOs reported can be reasonably explained after investigation to be natural or
man-made objects/events.
I think the only feasable way of instrumenting things would be a series of
all sky cameras. The field of view of the cameras would need to overlap, so
you could triangulate the position of anything observed. The images would need
to be recorded on high definition video and preferebly time stamped. You might
consider having remote controlled cameras with telephoto lenses at sites. These
could be manually aimed and fired by an operator at your control centre if
anything unusual is seen. Some cameras linked to spectrographs might provide
information.
Radar may be useful. Also keeping a detailed check of weather might be useful.
The undertaking would be massive. You could always speak nicely to your local
military, who I am sure get up to all these kinds of things already.
Steve
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
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(7343) Sat 6 Feb 93 8:21p
By: Roger Prokic
To: All
Re: Survey
St: 7067<>7344
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From: Roger.Prokic@f60.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Roger Prokic)
Date: 3 Feb 93 02:37:00 GMT
Message-ID: <728719276.AA00120@eilc.fidonet.org>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
I am an Instrumentation engineer on the Space Shuttles working for NASA.
I could suggest many instruments to collect real data on UFO's; however,
the catch is to collect data means that we have to place instruments on a
UFO...that's the catch...there's not much measuring that can be done
without the UFO to attach sensors and transducers on.
* Freddie 1.3b4 * The first full-featured QWK reader for the Mac
* Origin: E.I.L.C. BBS: Source For Information! 407-676-2998 (1:374/60)
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(7344) Sat 6 Feb 93 8:21p
By: Dave Fischer
To: All
Re: Survey
St: 7343<>7489
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From: gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave Fischer)
Date: 3 Feb 93 09:31:14 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Message-ID: <9302011945.AA4014.V3.4@gilly.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
>I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of
>instrumentation and measurement of the UFO phenomenon comes up
>when we discuss how to do "real science" in determing what UFOs
>are. What should we be attempting to measure and how would we
Number one priority: stop destroying witness credibility by using
hypnosis to "extract" information. Such data is as likely to come
from the hypnotist as from the witness.
------------------------ uunet!quack!gilly!dave ------------------------
================= Dave Fischer - Nature's Perfect Food =================
---------------------- dave%gilly@quack.sac.ca.us ----------------------
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(7489) Sun 7 Feb 93 3:28p
By: Glenn Durden
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7344<>7496
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From: alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden)
Date: 3 Feb 93 02:15:07 GMT
Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
Message-ID: <wBDeyB1w165w@csource.oz.au>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of instrumentat
>
> Thoughts, ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
> UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
> INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
How about a photograph that isnt blurry :-)
Seriously though, would a spectrographic analysis of the light reflected
off one help to tell what they were made of?
.........................................................
glenn durden
alfa@csource.oz.au Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
The opinions expressed above are that of the author only.
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(7496) Sun 7 Feb 93 3:28p
By: Denise Solis
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7489<>7508
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From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Date: 3 Feb 93 17:26:52 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Message-ID: <fbRM02PY345501@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <9302011945.AA4014.V3.4@gilly.UUCP> gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave
Fischer) writes:
>Number one priority: stop destroying witness credibility by using
>hypnosis to "extract" information. Such data is as likely to come
>from the hypnotist as from the witness.
>================= Dave Fischer - Nature's Perfect Food =================
I get really tired of this senario. My hypnotist was not expecting me to
discuss little grey men floating my body out the wall and into a ship.
She was more expecting me to say my father beat the crap out of me as a
child. I believe most credible hypnotherapists understand the concept of
"leading the witness". Give their profession a little credit. Most of the
comments made about hypnotists leading a person to say things is from
people who never had the experience. There is a quality to memory that
is missing in a made up story. When you re-experience something you also
get the fear, anxiety, humor, happiness, ect...
Just my 2 cents.
--
........--=={0}==--.........................--=={0}==--..............
--=={0}==-- * . *. dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com * .* --=={0}==--.
* --=={0}==-- * . DENISE FAITH SOLIS --=={0}==--*.*
--=={0}==--.....--=={0}==--..................*.............--=={0}==--
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(7508) Sun 7 Feb 93 3:29p
By: Dave Fischer
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7496<>7512
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From: gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave Fischer)
Date: 4 Feb 93 08:42:57 GMT
Organization: Flat Earth Liberation Front Against TV
Message-ID: <9302031825.AA11224.V3.4@gilly.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes:
>I get really tired of this senario. My hypnotist was not expecting me to
>discuss little grey men floating my body out the wall and into a ship.
>She was more expecting me to say my father beat the crap out of me as a
>child. I believe most credible hypnotherapists understand the concept of
>"leading the witness". Give their profession a little credit. Most of the
>comments made about hypnotists leading a person to say things is from
>people who never had the experience. There is a quality to memory that
>is missing in a made up story. When you re-experience something you also
>get the fear, anxiety, humor, happiness, ect...
>Just my 2 cents.
Well, the use of such tecniques that *I've* witnessed were a complete
joke. Of course there are "practitioners" who consciously avoid planting
any ideas, but I don't think they're a majority in the abductee field,
and how are you going to prove it anyways?
(Ignoring for the moment the question of whether there *is* such a thing as
ligit info from "hypnotherapy".)
------------------------ uunet!quack!gilly!dave ------------------------
================= Dave Fischer - Nature's Perfect Food =================
---------------------- dave%gilly@quack.sac.ca.us ----------------------
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(7512) Sun 7 Feb 93 3:29p
By: Charles Mcgrew
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7508<>7513
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From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Date: 4 Feb 93 05:31:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Message-ID: <Feb.4.00.31.35.1993.13470@dropout.rutgers.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
What should we be attempting to measure and how would we go
about doing it, including what types of instruments could be
used to acquire the data.
... well, it depends on what you want to get. Pictures are a plus,
so (this stuff is mostly obvious, but what the hell):
video camera(s) - highest quality available/affordable;
probably with some nice zoom. Use tripods whenever
possible, so camera movement is minimized.
light-intensifying equipment (like the news media have used
now and again, for instance during the Gulf War.)
For shooting at night.
radar (having a second, impartial observer would be a big
help -- radar returns are hard to deny.) A video
hookup to the radar display would be something of
a must.
audio recording equipment. Some of this lot could be pretty
cheap; you'd be looking to hear what people said
while they were looking. Another recorder, hooked
to a shotgun microphone could be used to record sounds
of whatever is seen. (Which could distinguish
helicopters from other things, for instance.)
motion sensors - maybe; I don't know much about 'em, but
they might be useful to wake up the crew (:-)
... having said all that, I'd point out that this stuff ain't cheap.
At least some of it is rentable from companies that specialize in
renting equipment, so if a group is going out every once in a while,
renting may be the cheaper way to go. (Rentable stuff may be in an
'oddball' format - that is, oddball for home use -- 3/4". Local
"cable access" stations can probably help out here for transfer
to a more 'home friendly' format as necessary.)
Once you have pictures (photographs, too), then you can analyze
your socks off.
Hope this helps,
Charles
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(7513) Sun 7 Feb 93 3:29p
By: Steve Gamble X3293
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7512<>7581
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From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Date: 4 Feb 93 13:13:00 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Message-ID: <1993Feb4.131300.28080@crc.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <wBDeyB1w165w@csource.oz.au>, alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden)
writes:
> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
>
> > I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of instrument
at
> >
> > Thoughts, ideas?
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> How about a photograph that isnt blurry :-)
>
Trouble is, the photos that are not blurry tend to hoaxes!! Take George
Adamski's photos, not much sign of blurr but widely held to be fakes.
(ref: The UFO Encylopedia. Margaret Sachs. Corgi Books, 1980)
> Seriously though, would a spectrographic analysis of the light reflected
> off one help to tell what they were made of?
>
> glenn durden
It comes down to what type of UFO you are after. Clearly there is something
different about abductions compared with distant nocturnal lights.
Steve
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
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(7581) Sun 7 Feb 93 8:28p
By: Tom Randolph
To: All
Re: Re: Survey
St: 7513<>8130
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From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Date: 4 Feb 93 10:10:59 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Message-ID: <1993Feb4.154300.20920@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <Feb.4.00.31.35.1993.13470@dropout.rutgers.edu>,
mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes...
>
> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> > What should we be attempting to measure and how would we go
> > about doing it, including what types of instruments could be
> > used to acquire the data.
>
>.... well, it depends on what you want to get. Pictures are a plus,
>so (this stuff is mostly obvious, but what the hell):
>
> video camera(s)
> light-intensifying equipment
> radar
> audio recording equipment
> motion sensors
I actually have thought about this a bit. Here's my "ideal UFO hunter" list:
- Compass
one magnetic, for quick checking of magnetic effects, one gyroscopic, as a
check on the magnetic compass
- Geiger counter
self explanatory
- Surveyor's transit or equivalent equipment
for triangulation on sightings; this requires more than one observer and
someone who can do the math
- Camera
with telephoto lenses; fast film for capturing moving objects
- Telescope
preferably 1000mm or more focal length, with capability to attach camera
or video camera; for close ups if they stand still long enough
- Video camera
with zoom lens; image intensifier would be nice for nighttime; so would IR
capability for recording heat effects; date/time display
- Cassette recorder
with shotgun mike, for recording object sound effects at a distance
- Handheld CB radios (or Amateur band for you Hams)
for coordinating multiple observers
- Notebook/pens/pencils
obvious
- Binoculars
obvious; I keep a pair in my truck at all times
- Handheld scanner radio
preferably a good general-coverage one, programmable to receive local
police, aircraft, military
- A cheapo battery powered AM radio
good for picking up electromagnetic disturbance; tune to anyplace there's
no station and listen for noise
- Ziplock bags
for samples; proper technique would be to photograph sample as found, then
use the bag to pick it up without touching, seal it
- A vehicle
I've seen mention of someone's "UFO detector" alarm going off here on a.a.v...
anyone have details on that?
-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com
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(8130) Wed 10 Feb 93 3:24p
By: Michael Corbin
To: Dave Fischer
Re: Survey
St: Local 7581<>8131
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> From: gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave Fischer)
> Date: 3 Feb 93 09:31:14 GMT
> Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
> Message-ID: <9302011945.AA4014.V3.4@gilly.UUCP>
> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
>>I would like to pose a question to the a.a.v users. The idea of
>>instrumentation and measurement of the UFO phenomenon comes up
>>when we discuss how to do "real science" in determing what UFOs
>>are. What should we be attempting to measure and how would we
> Number one priority: stop destroying witness credibility by using
> hypnosis to "extract" information. Such data is as likely to come
> from the hypnotist as from the witness.
While I agree with you partially, I believe that what we need to insist upon is
that those practicing hypnosis should strictly adhere to the guidelines
pertaining to such practice. Ideally, the hypnosis should be carried out by a
qualified medical practitioner such as a psychologist or psychiatrist, or at
least a forensic specialist. California has addressed the issue of hypnosis as
it pertains to criminal justice and admissibility in court. Their guidelines
are very strict and this should be used as some type of guideline. I do not
agree that people who take a correspondence course or something equivalent
should be doing the work, unless someone with the above qualifications are
present.
Secondly, I find it very irresponsible that some of these people make various
statements about "alien agendas" based upon the information that is learned
from a participant under hypnosis. This is the other fault in abduction
research. Hypnosis should not be used as the primary tool for researching this
phenomenon.
Just my two cents.
Mike
---
* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428)
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(8131) Wed 10 Feb 93 3:25p
By: Michael Corbin
To: Glenn Durden
Re: Survey
St: Local <8130
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> From: alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden)
> Date: 3 Feb 93 02:15:07 GMT
> Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
> Message-ID: <wBDeyB1w165w@csource.oz.au>
> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
> How about a photograph that isnt blurry :-)
> Seriously though, would a spectrographic analysis of the light reflected
> off one help to tell what they were made of?
It is a good start. Maybe it might give us some clues about the method of
propulsion.
Mike
---
* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428)
lysis of the light reflected
> off one help to tell what they were made of?
It is a good start. Maybe it might give us some clues about the method of propulsion.
Mike
---
* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428)
